Bethesda and Elder Scrolls

I don't seem to comprehend the hatred upon the last chapter of ''Elder Scrolls''.Why do people keep criticizing and judging ''Oblivion''?!:idea: Im reaching the conclusion that most of these people haven't even played the previous chapters.Bethesda and Elder Scrolls
Shallow roleplaying elements, overuse of level scalling, generic setting/environment, annoying voice overs and dialogue, streamlining and/or removal of skills from previous games.Bethesda and Elder Scrolls
[QUOTE=''Alaris83'']annoying voice overs and dialogue[/QUOTE]The rest I could understand being negative points for some people, but this? What are you talking about?
[QUOTE=''JP_Russell''][QUOTE=''Alaris83'']annoying voice overs and dialogue[/QUOTE]The rest I could understand being negative points for some people, but this? What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]Limited voice actors, or in other words, most everyone sounds the same. Did you ever talk to a begger and hear his/her ''wretched old man/woman'' voice only to get a competely different sounding voice if you ask them about anything. Let's not forget the random NPC conversations that you hear all too often, courtesy of Radiant AI.
[QUOTE=''Rylsadar'']I don't seem to comprehend the hatred upon the last chapter of ''Elder Scrolls''.Why do people keep criticizing and judging ''Oblivion''?!:idea: Im reaching the conclusion that most of these people haven't even played the previous chapters.[/QUOTE]

I played Arena and Morrowind, and I can safely say that I've spent A LOT of time in Morrowind.

Seeing Oblivion announced, I was like ''wooooo, it's gonna be Morrowind with a bigger world and better graphics! Wicked!''
But it turned out to be some sort of pseudo Morrowind. Commercialized is the word, I think. (and I hope I spelled that correctly :P ) It has nowhere near the same amount of atmosphere or immersion that Morrowind had. The world was bigger, perhaps, but it sure didn't feel like that. In Morrowind, if you just went of in a random direction you'd come across all sorts of adventures. And that was just plain awesome. In Oblivion, if you go off in a random direction you'll only find lame enemies and uninspired dungeons within 1 minute walking of each other.

I can't even begin to sum up all the stuff that Oblivion did wrong in relation to Morrowind.
That said, it DID do things right, the combat is definatly an improvement over Morrowind, although it gets boring after a while too.
The graphics, they do still add something to the game, but they would have been put to use much better in Morrowind, I think.

It's just that Oblivion improved lots of stuff that could have used improving in Morrowind, but they ended up screwing over a lot of delicate features that made Morrowind so great.
And let me add, I really need mods to actually be able to enjoy Oblivion. Think on that.

Simply put: Oblivion is just a very very very VERY VERY bad sequel to Morrowind.
''The Elder Scrolls'' always gave me what i want:-The philosophical story of deities.-A vast world to travel.-An outstanding fictional story never seen before in this genre.-Weapons,ingredients,magic,cloths,armors... An immense amount of objects to discover.-The best guild simulation i've never seen.-Various races created to enhance a rich world.-The best graphical engine of all role playing games.
[QUOTE=''Alaris83''][QUOTE=''JP_Russell''] [QUOTE=''Alaris83'']annoying voice overs and dialogue[/QUOTE]The rest I could understand being negative points for some people, but this? What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]Limited voice actors, or in other words, most everyone sounds the same. Did you ever talk to a begger and hear his/her ''wretched old man/woman'' voice only to get a competely different sounding voice if you ask them about anything. Let's not forget the random NPC conversations that you hear all too often, courtesy of Radiant AI.[/QUOTE]Well, I'll give you the part about the beggars, mostly everyone agrees that it's freaky and stupid to hear them change styles mid-conversation. However, I think most people either don't mind or rather like the conversations at least because of how funny they can be. As for the voice-actors, that was intentional on Bethesda's part. I don't know if you noticed, but the voices are race-specific so that you can tell what race they are by hearing them. I rather like it, since I wouldn't have a clue what race they were otherwise in some cases.
I personally loved Oblivion, that's probably why I spent 302 hours completing everything.Some people think that Morrowind is far superior to Oblivion and it some ways they are right but is Oblivion a bad game no way. By keeping Oblivion more straight forward it drew in a larger audience than it would have done. There's a fine line between being true to the previous games and doing something that will sell. The market changes, what the majority want one year is not what they want the next. Developers have to be in tune with the market and release a game that's going to do well at that time or face going under.Developers can't please everybody and they don't try to.
[QUOTE=''ShotGunBunny'']Simply put: Oblivion is just a very very very VERY VERY bad sequel to Morrowind.[/QUOTE]See what i mean?!''Oblivion'' isn't a sequel of any game!!! ''Oblivion'' is just another freaking chapter!!!!
Oblivion isn't a bad game and many people may really love it. But as an Role Playing Game it's unbelievably week. Fans of the series were left in the dark, while the game was made for the action adventure lovers.
[QUOTE=''Rylsadar''] ''The Elder Scrolls'' always gave me what i want:-The philosophical story of deities.Yeah because helping a king from stopping ''hell'' from spilling over is so ''deep'' in philosophical ideas..-A vast world to travel.Yes rolling hills of nothing, with a randomized dungeon every so often that holds the exact same items challenge as eveyr other dungeon..-An outstanding fictional story never seen before in this genre.LOL, I am sorry but I can't stop laughing at this line.. Please play Baldur's gate 2, KOTOR, Planescape Torment, etc etc at the very least.. Because as this statement alone lends me to believe YOU havn't played any good RPGs ont he PC.-Weapons,ingredients,magic,cloths,armors... An immense amount of objects to discover.All leveled, meaning those items are more or less the exact same.. So yes this game does have alot of items, just like FINAL FANTASY games..-The best guild simulation i've never seen.No, not really.. All they are is a quest line there is nothing unique about them.. The only one even close to being unique was assassins guild and that was entirelly too short..-Various races created to enhance a rich world.....Well this doesn't make sense every rpg now adays has numerous races..-The best graphical engine of all role playing games.Its a bonus but certainly does not define it...[/QUOTE] That being said this game is a incrediably weak RPG game.. I felt like I had 10 times more decision making in character devolpment in the Diablo series then I ever did in Oblivion.. No I take that back I had no meaningful choices in Oblivion because I could do everything at the word go.. My beginning choices didn't define my play style what soe ver.. And in the end I was the best fighter wizard theif etc, giving no replayability.. The combat is weak as hell with 4 differnet swings that really add nothing to it.. Wher ealot of times you cheese tactics by hitting then retreating over and over again, pretty much showing the weak AI.. The story absolutely was horrible, it shocks me that people are now claiming its the best.. Absolutely laughable.. The item system is also horrible its a leveled system of suckage.. Thats as nicely as I can put it.. Where in the end one handed weapons are king, and there is really almost no difference between blades and Blunts (I guess axes weren't good enough to be put in its own group).. In the end the game is easy and really can be completed by a 8 year old with minimal effort.. I also must say that the game can be completed at level 2 (the main quest and 95% of the side quests, daedric shrine actually have level requirements for no better reason because they can).. It sucks that it got such a high rating from so many, the reason why I hate it that much.. IS because I fear that devs will get the idea that they can shovel us dumbed down pieces of crap like this and get away with it.
[QUOTE=''JP_Russell'']Well, I'll give you the part about the beggars, mostly everyone agrees that it's freaky and stupid to hear them change styles mid-conversation. However, I think most people either don't mind or rather like the conversations at least because of how funny they can be. As for the voice-actors, that was intentional on Bethesda's part. I don't know if you noticed, but the voices are race-specific so that you can tell what race they are by hearing them. I rather like it, since I wouldn't have a clue what race they were otherwise in some cases.[/QUOTE]Maybe if Bethesda hadn't blew their voice acting budget on big name celebrities like Stewart and Bean, we might have a unique voice for each race like in Morrowind.
I have to agree with several of the above posters.I have played both Morrowind and Oblivion. and where I really liked Morrowind, Oblivion was a dissapointment for me.Its still a good game I think, but not better than Morrowind. Feels alittle like Bethesda went out and instead of asking fans of Morrowind what they liked about the game, they seemed to ask what people didn't like. So it seemed in the RPG aspect to have been dumped down. You get held in the hand alot more, and its a shame imo.
elitism runs rampart in this thread. if you feel the need to flame another user for his choice in games, please kindly take it elsewhere.Both Morrowind and Oblivion are great games. Ups and downs with each - morrowind's magic system and combat system were lacking.
Oblivion's repetitive dungeons get old and the voice overs can be comicalMorrowind's atmosphere was spot on.
Oblivion's ease of use and musical scores draw you in.
I don't understand it either. Oblivion is a great action game.
[QUOTE=''Alaris83''][QUOTE=''JP_Russell''] Well, I'll give you the part about the beggars, mostly everyone agrees that it's freaky and stupid to hear them change styles mid-conversation. However, I think most people either don't mind or rather like the conversations at least because of how funny they can be. As for the voice-actors, that was intentional on Bethesda's part. I don't know if you noticed, but the voices are race-specific so that you can tell what race they are by hearing them. I rather like it, since I wouldn't have a clue what race they were otherwise in some cases.[/QUOTE]Maybe if Bethesda hadn't blew their voice acting budget on big name celebrities like Stewart and Bean, we might have a unique voice for each race like in Morrowind.[/QUOTE]We do for the most part. There are a few races that share the same VA, but it's not like there is only a tiny handful of VAs. There's the Imperial male VA; Redguard male VA; Breton male VA; Nord and Orc male VA; Khajiit and Argonian male VA; High, Wood, and Dark Elf male VA; Imperial and Breton female VA; Redguard female VA; Nord and Orc female VA; Khajiit and Argonian female VA; and High, Wood, and Dark Elf female VA. That's eleven voice-actors overall. I admit that a few less shared voices would be good, but when you consider how many voice-overs had to be recorded for the game, eleven different voice-actors isn't bad at all.My one complaint with the voice-acting is that the Redguard female VA is pretty damn bad. The Nord and Orc female and female elf VAs are pretty mediocre, too. But the majority of them are really good; a couple are even exemplary.Granted, I haven't played Morrowind yet, so I don't know if there was a little more variation, but I know from looking at listings of voice-actors for it that it too has some races with shared voice-actors.
[QUOTE=''Rylsadar'']I don't seem to comprehend the hatred upon the last chapter of ''Elder Scrolls''.Why do people keep criticizing and judging ''Oblivion''?!:idea: Im reaching the conclusion that most of these people haven't even played the previous chapters.[/QUOTE]Oblivion is so popular and ubiquitous that many, myself included, get enthusiastic about criticizing it because its annoyingly over-lauded. I don't know why you conclude that many of us who dislike Oblivion haven't played the previous chapters...I don't see your line of logic there. Playing previous TES games certainly doesn't heighten one's appreciation of Oblivion - quite the opposite really. I find those that love Oblivion are those that are new to the series, or started with Morrowind. I'm sure plenty of longtime TES fans are down with Oblivion as well, and there's nothing wrong with that. My first TES title was daggerfall, and quite frankly - I hated it. But i saw the potential. It was an interesting game, maybe the most interesting title my 7th grade self had ever played. But for all its flashes of brilliance, the underlying experience was incredibly bland, and...retarded...for lack of a better word. Still, I got psyched when Morrowind was announced. I figured Bethsoft had worked out the kinks. I was wrong, in fact it seemed they threw out everything that was interesting about daggerfall, and went in a completely new direction. But their new direction wasn't bad, Vvardenfell was an interesting place, even in the face of odd design decisions. Lukewarm Morrowind experience or no, I was pumped for Oblivion. I knew Daggerfall'd been left far behind, but was looking forward to Morrowind perfected. But as i worked through Oblivion it became clearer and clearer that i was experiencing possibly the lamest, least interesting RPG of my life. I was surprised to see that Beth-soft hadn't improved on their ideas in Morrowind. Again, they'd thrown most of them away in favor of new EVEN WORSE ideas. I was dumbfounded. It lacked even the flawed brilliance of daggerfall and morrowind, and in many places seemed to be actively trying to piss me off. From the hollow character leveling and creature/item scaling, to the infuriating absence of quality animation (a Beth-soft specialty it seems), to the inept storytelling (the only good tales being found IN THE BOOKS!), to the dopey smiles of 'mini-gamed' NPC's (even in the middle of dire situations, NPC's that 'like' you beam like mongoloid idiots) the game slapped me across the face with both the stupidity and the arrogance of its designers. The game had no charm as far as the eye could see. At that point i pretty much gave up on Beth-soft. So yes, i've played previous chapters, and no, I don't like Oblivion.
[QUOTE=''JP_Russell'']Granted, I haven't played Morrowind yet, so I don't know if there was a little more variation, but I know from looking at listings of voice-actors for it that it too has some races with shared voice-actors.[/QUOTE]The only voice over in Morrowind was the initial greetings or reactions when you either walked close to an NPC or clicked on them.The dialog was in text only.
I should also point out that for me, there's something cathartic about criticising Oblivion. I enjoy it, and that's why i came to this topic in the first.
There's another Oblivion-flaming thread called ''Oblivion bad'', if you're interested, for a group therapy. I think the most infuriating thing about Oblivion is that it got brilliant marks from the likes of Gamespot (9.3, above, amongst others, Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape Torment, Fallout 2... and Morrowind).